028
The Human Way to Use AI
23/10/2025
Pete Winn, Andy David
Pete and Andy reunite in person at City Beach to explore how AI agents are can give individuals the power to solve their own problems. From Wingman V2's evolution to the resurrection of pre-digital work practices, they discuss why treating agents like employees with their own computers might be the key to unlocking practical AI leverage without the complexity of SaaS abstractions.
Description
Pete and Andy reunite in person at City Beach to explore how AI agents are can give individuals the power to solve their own problems. From Wingman V2's evolution to the resurrection of pre-digital work practices, they discuss why treating agents like employees with their own computers might be the key to unlocking practical AI leverage without the complexity of SaaS abstractions.
CHAPTER HIGHLIGHTS:
0:00 Back in the van at City Beach, Perth - discussing grass, beaches, and jet lag after Madeira
2:55 Kicking off with Wingman V2 development and the importance of reading skills documentation
5:02 What is Wingman? The TLDR for new listeners on agent orchestration software
9:05 Anthropic releases Claude Code on mobile - perfect timing for Wingman's approach
10:19 The lobotomization problem and why model flexibility matters for production systems
13:29 Building processes with agents: triggers, workflows, and file-based conventions
16:12 File watchers and convention-based programming for agent coordination
18:44 The challenge of selling Wingman vs. using it to run businesses directly
21:08 Why agents are like employees: managing workload across multiple direct reports
23:30 The cloud vs. on-premises debate: putting computers in businesses, not businesses in computers
25:42 Staying involved in the process to maintain intuition and avoid costly mistakes
27:52 The last mile problem: getting from 95% to production-ready
30:09 Small vibes, many courses: iterative development with constant testing and commits
31:38 The shift from resource allocation to rapid experimentation in enterprise
34:17 Why outsourced consulting models struggle with agent-driven development
37:20 Multi-user Wingman: the philosophical question of shared vs. individual agents
39:53 Using Nostr keys for identity management in small business tools
42:10 Building Other Stuff with just two people and AI leverage
44:45 The importance of developer logs, security reviews, and daily highlight reports
48:49 Relearning structured work practices from the pre-digital era
52:07 Building Pontifex: a visual interface bridge for Claude Code web development
54:37 Why clipboard-based workflows beat complex integrations
56:07 The Excel principle: empowering people to solve their own problems with tools
Check out more episodes
The Good Stuff is a low-fi dialogue with Pete Winn and Andy David.
Each week, we share our everyday experiences working with artificial intelligence and how it's fundamentally changing the rules of work and business, the economy, entrepreneurship, and human potential. We explore the ripple effects, unintended consequences, and emerging opportunities as AI transforms how we work and create, diving into the tools and technology we're using each week.
Expect a mix of chats out of the back of a van at the beach, walking interviews and general use of dialectic and discussion with insightful guests that lift the lid on complex topics. Chilled out, minimal jargon, authentic.
Connect With Us:
Email: info@otherstuff.studio
Pete: https://x.com/Pete_Winn
Andy: https://x.com/andymdavid
Transcript
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